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Thread about Windows 11

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Yincognito
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Re: Thread about Windows 11

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death.crafter wrote: August 6th, 2021, 5:53 pm Who else hates this?
Screenshot 2021-08-06 232234.png
I do, but I understand why it might be this way: easier to tap on the other choices if this was ever run on mobile devices.
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Re: Thread about Windows 11

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jsmorley wrote: August 6th, 2021, 5:55 pm I was a little surprised by it, but can't say I "hate" it. There is a lot that you just have to get used to...
I welcome the accent and contrast but the highlight is too narrow to look good.

But also I like that they have made the normal context menu smaller.
Yincognito wrote: August 6th, 2021, 6:03 pm I do, but I understand why it might be this way: easier to tap on the other choices if this was ever run on mobile devices.
I don't think so. While they have made the touch oriented context menu(the new one) more compact for mouse users, this type of context menu is not for touch users. As you see, touch needs more space and not less.

But we hate it nonetheless. :rolmfao:
By hating I don't mean that I have scheduled Linux for download :lol: . Tho the new CuteFishOS is definitely worth a try when it comes out.
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Yincognito
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Re: Thread about Windows 11

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death.crafter wrote: August 6th, 2021, 7:38 pmI don't think so. While they have made the touch oriented context menu(the new one) more compact for mouse users, this type of context menu is not for touch users. As you see, touch needs more space and not less.
I know it need more space, but I can't think of another reason for them to do this. After all, bar the spacing, I guess it's more or less the same layout for touch vs non-touch. The way you posted it, it's the other menu options appearing to have more space (the current one doesn't need that as it's already selected). Anyway, that was just a supposition, so I could be wrong. By the way, does the "Edit skin" menu item that you showed get selected if the mouse is on the white space that should technically belong to it, or the selection gets triggered only if the mouse is on the blue rounded rectangle? Cause if it's the latter, that's really bad, IMHO. Even if it's the former, it's kind of awkward to have the mouse on a white spot and the selection to be drawn outside the mouse pointer using a blue background.
death.crafter wrote: August 6th, 2021, 7:38 pmBut we hate it nonetheless. :rolmfao:
From my POV, in terms of visuals, Windows went downhill ever since the Metro "style" (all that came afterwards were basically versions of that). Now, instead of making stuff nicely look a bit 3D like, it's a bunch of flat rectangles made by a bunch of flat earthers, LOL. These things might look good on smartphones and all, but on computers it's like we're back to stone age, visually. At least that's how I see it - other folks might be happy with what they get. :confused:
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Re: Thread about Windows 11

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I'm liking Windows 11 so far on balance. There are a few changes that make me go grrr... But to be honest most of that is just a matter of getting used to something. At worst re-training some "muscle memory".

Not all of it mind you. There are two things that really annoy me, and I have some fading hope that they change their minds.

1) You can't "ungroup" icons on the taskbar. For instance, each explorer folder you open is grouped into a single icon, that you manage by hovering over or right-clicking and such. This is universally hated, and must be made optional, like it was in Windows 10.

2) While I understand and don't really hate the new terse and "smart" system context menus, they MUST allow some hack to have it default to the old, more complete ones, that you have to get to with an extra click on "More options" now. All the apps that you use via the context menus on files and folders are now a click further away, and I hate that. I right-click and select "Edit with Notepad++" a hundred times a day.

But most changes are either good, or honestly, who cares... The new Start menu is not terribly popular, but I still have the screaming ringing in my ears from when Windows 10 came out and it wasn't just like Windows 7. it's entirely different, but perfectly serviceable and is just a matter of getting use to it.
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Re: Thread about Windows 11

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With the context menus, you don't have to be exactly on the blue highlighted area, there is a little give above and below that still triggers the highlight and reacts to a click.


1.jpg
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Re: Thread about Windows 11

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jsmorley wrote: August 6th, 2021, 9:01 pm With the context menus, you don't have to be exactly on the blue highlighted area, there is a little give above and below that still triggers the highlight and reacts to a click.



1.jpg
Exactly. This feels just unnatural.
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Re: Thread about Windows 11

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jsmorley wrote: August 6th, 2021, 8:59 pm1) You can't "ungroup" icons on the taskbar. For instance, each explorer folder you open is grouped into a single icon, that you manage by hovering over or right-clicking and such. This is universally hated, and must be made optional, like it was in Windows 10.
You mean Settings / Personalization / Taskbar / Combine Taskbar Buttons doesn't look like this anymore?
Taskbar.jpg
jsmorley wrote: August 6th, 2021, 8:59 pm2) While I understand and don't really hate the new terse and "smart" system context menus, they MUST allow some hack to have it default to the old, more complete ones, that you have to get to with an extra click on "More options" now. All the apps that you use via the context menus on files and folders are now a click further away, and I hate that. I right-click and select "Edit with Notepad++" a hundred times a day.
This is bad, but I suspect this is more likely down to the 3rd party programs to implement when Win 11 will be final. Some insert themselves directly into the context menu (e.g. Notepad, some AVs), some don't and create nested submenus for that (e.g. WinRar), and this is on Win 10. If Win 11 allows the former, I'm sure folks will implement it again for this OS version. If not, at least you have "Open With", isn't it? No click there, just hover. That being said, context menus could be VERY "tall" in Win 10 (some even didn't fit my poor 768 vertical resolution!), so compact is good from that POV.
jsmorley wrote: August 6th, 2021, 9:01 pm With the context menus, you don't have to be exactly on the blue highlighted area, there is a little give above and below that still triggers the highlight and reacts to a click.
Ah, I see - thanks. Well, it's not the worst choice (the other would have been catastrophic), but yeah, a bit awkward to the eye, to have stuff selected without actually hovering on them, from a visual POV. A bit more natural this way:
Context.jpg
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Re: Thread about Windows 11

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Yincognito wrote: August 6th, 2021, 9:53 pm You mean Settings / Personalization / Taskbar / Combine Taskbar Buttons doesn't look like this anymore?
Taskbar.jpg
Nope. There is no way, not even with a registry hack to get back the "ungrouped" icons. This I hate more than any other thing.
This is bad, but I suspect this is more likely down to the 3rd party programs to implement when Win 11 will be final. Some insert themselves directly into the context menu (e.g. Notepad, some AVs), some don't and create nested submenus for that (e.g. WinRar), and this is on Win 10. If Win 11 allows the former, I'm sure folks will implement it again for this OS version. If not, at least you have "Open With", isn't it? No click there, just hover. That being said, context menus could be VERY "tall" in Win 10 (some even didn't fit my poor 768 vertical resolution!), so compact is good from that POV.
Nope. There is no facility today for any 3rd-party program to add itself to the "main" context menu. Add away as you like, but you will be buried under "More options" in what is in effect exactly the old Windows 10 context menu, including all that is on the new one. "Open with" is a partial answer, but not always appropriate. For instance, all the management of the Rainmeter source code I do on my machine is done with TortoiseGit via the context menu. It's not about "opening" anything.

Before:
1.jpg


Today:
2.jpg


For the most part, your comment about the compactness of the new context menu is correct. I actually really like it. It's also a lot "smarter", and only options that make sense show up. Allowing apps to add to it is a double-edged sword, as the old context menu got very long and cluttered, (see that mess above!) and while possible, it's not trivial or intuitive how to remove things from it. This is a tough one to solve in my view. Initially there was a registry hack that would make the "More Options" menu, the old version, the "default" on right-click. That lasted one beta version and they "fixed it" so it won't work anymore. I'd like the option to decide myself. I doubt it on this one though, and it might just be more re-training of "muscle memory".
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Re: Thread about Windows 11

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jsmorley wrote: August 6th, 2021, 10:00 pm Nope. There is no way, not even with a registry hack to get back the "ungrouped" icons. This I hate more than any other thing.
[...]
Nope. There is no facility today for any 3rd-party program to add itself to the "main" context menu.
[...]
That lasted one beta version and they "fixed it" so it won't work anymore. I'd like the option to decide myself.
This pretty much sums up my hate regarding the "software" today: they take the choice / control from the user. I noticed this quite a while ago, and I suspect it's connected to the change in "architecture" in general programming (the "new style" of white, flat and totally futile limited options thrown down the user's throat, from OS, utilities, games, to even forum software), as well as the change in evaluating a person's behavior in general. Some people live in a bubble having no idea or openly disregarding (to put it mildly) what regular people need.

Isn't it interesting how quickly they "fixed" this little pocket of choice while they spent decades not fixing other major issues that are of actual concern to users? :lol: Security and commercial interests alone can't justify these things, IMHO...

P.S. I don't have a good opinion about the things labeled as "smart" nowadays. I know what you meant, but in general I wouldn't call a bunch of regular if-then-else -s as smart, no matter how much some market them as such. Nothing in programming is smart until a true AI is implemented. And then, folks would have other, bigger problems to solve about that. :sly:
Last edited by Yincognito on August 6th, 2021, 11:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Thread about Windows 11

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Yincognito wrote: August 6th, 2021, 10:59 pm This pretty much sums up my hate regarding the "software" today: they take the choice / control from the user. I noticed this quite a while ago, and I suspect it's connected to the change in "architecture" in general programming (the "new style" of white, flat and totally futile limited options thrown down the user's throat, from OS, utilities, games, to even forum software), as well as the change in evaluating a person's behavior in general. Some people live in a bubble having no idea or openly disregarding (to put it mildly) what regular people need.

Isn't it interesting how quickly they "fixed" this little pocket of choice while they spent decades not fixing other major issues that are of actual concern to users? :lol: Security and commercial interests alone can't justify these things, IMHO...
Yeah, I hear you. Oh, by the way, we are going to be forcing the [Rainmeter] section to the top of the .ini file, since that's where most folks have it.