It is currently October 24th, 2021, 10:37 am

Ideas

Report bugs with the Rainmeter application and suggest features.
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sl23
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Re: Ideas

Post by sl23 »

Trust me, the manual is an exceptionally well written resource, I didn't mean to put a downer on it! It has helped me countless times to learn new things. It isn't perfect, but nothing is!

@OrionsHope: Btw, I just searched my GoogleDrive in case I still had Rainpad stored in there and it so happens I did!!! So here it is for you and anyone else who needs it...
Rainpad v0.2.zip
It can be useful for beginners to see how things are put together. Be aware that there are issues with it, as described in the link I posted before, but it is very usable and helpful as a learning tool.

Good luck. :D
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death.crafter
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Re: Ideas

Post by death.crafter »

jsmorley wrote: September 11th, 2021, 11:35 am The manual is a "reference" and not a "cookbook". While this can be hard to jump into when you are brand-new at Rainmeter, the virtually unlimited ways you can do things in Rainmeter just doesn't lend itself to a "cookbook" approach. I agree that the best way to learn Rainmeter is to tear apart existing skins, change them to do what you want them to do, and use the manual as a reference for how to correctly implement stuff. We have worked very hard over the years to make the manual as comprehensive, accurate, and clear as we possibly can, but it is as always a work in progress...
I couldn't agree more.

And to be honest, Rainmeter manual feeds you with a spoon. No other manuals I have read explain things to this extent, let alone giving complete examples of the uses.
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sl23
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Re: Ideas

Post by sl23 »

I quite agree too, I can't make head nor tail of XYplorer's manual, so it shows how good Rainmeter's actually is.
All I meant was that for a beginner who hasn't a clue where to start, anything like this is a maze and a good place to start is Rainpad or editing other skins. :D
OrionsHope
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Re: Ideas

Post by OrionsHope »

sl23 wrote: September 11th, 2021, 4:48 pm I quite agree too, I can't make head nor tail of XYplorer's manual, so it shows how good Rainmeter's actually is.
All I meant was that for a beginner who hasn't a clue where to start, anything like this is a maze and a good place to start is Rainpad or editing other skins. :D
Even as you tell me how much you can do with the "readily available" information out there, you've unwittingly proved my point exactly. I have spent weeks researching how to make Rainmeter go and it is only today while I'm here reading your response that I have found the first reference to Rainpad after looking at perhaps dozens of sites during that time period and reading/watching an untold number of review and how-to videos, lua language sites, etc. Again, I'm not disputing that the information is out there, rather I'm disputing how readily available some of it is. Also, and this is on me, it never occurred to me that there might be a forum until late in the game. I realized later that I'd actually visited several times already but I've had several head injuries in my life and my brain isn't what it used to be. *sigh* It may also be why I had so much trouble figuring out how to make things work. No sympathy, I'm still fat, dumb, and happy but it does tend to complicate things :( :twisted:
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sl23
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Re: Ideas

Post by sl23 »

Sorry to hear of your problems, life is cruel at best! Only those that suffer see the true meaning of it all. I don't actually know what point I unwittingly proved, my aim was to help you help yourself, I didn't read the whole topic, too much to read. But hopefully, my goal was achieved?

Well, Rainpad hasn't been in development since 2012 I think, that and the fact it seems to have not been popular with the team. I'm sure I had a conversing with JSMorley years ago about integrating into Rainmeter, but he didn't like the idea. I didn't understand why back then, but now I see that there's just far too much you can do with Rainmeter via it's own code plus all the RegEx, Lua, and whatever else is used to create skins.

Rainpad is a good learning tool, to do basic stuff, to learn how it all works, what the difference is between Measures and Meters, how Roundline meters are put together and many other things. The more you play with Rainpad, the more you'll see how Rainmeter works. Then you'll be able to leave Rainpad behind and expand on the real nature of Rainmeter... Good luck :thumbup:

PS. At the top of this page is a link to download Rainpad, in case you missed it. ;-)
till have no clue how to edit them for my own benefit :? If the user experience could be made user friendly, just imagine how this product will explode in popularity! They have to be complete as well so that for every skin, all colors, fonts, font size, etc that you intend for the end user to be able to tweak. Anything too intense and they have to know how to code like the rest of you.
I completely understand your pov, mine is the same when I approach stuff like this! I have come across many apps that require a steep learning curve, but you either learn or don't. Rainmeter is actually pretty easy to learn and do basic things. It's the trickier stuff that is difficult and that's why the kind, helpful and generous people here give their time and expertise to help us poor sods who don't have a clue! :lol: If it weren't for their help, I wouldn't know half as much as I do about Rainmeter!
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sl23
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Re: Ideas

Post by sl23 »

SilverAzide wrote: September 4th, 2021, 12:31 am I understand where you are coming from, it can be challenging to learn when you are just starting out. There are lots of examples in the manual and tips-and-tricks guides that can tell you how these things work, and I'll admit it does help to have a programming background (in something, doesn't matter what).

I won't try to answer all the issues you brought up, but I'll just tell you that it is probably 10 or maybe even 20 times harder to build a theme-able skin than it is to just build a skin. Some authors do make their skins very flexible and/or theme-able, but it is a ton of work that might be completely for nothing if the skin isn't popular. So it is no surprise to me that the vast majority of skin authors don't do it.
That's how I see it too. I'm far from being an expert at this, but I try my best to make things easier for others when I upload stuff. Partly cos I just enjoy messing with the code, but this is how you learn too.
SilverAzide wrote: September 4th, 2021, 12:31 amMost just build something they like themselves and fling it out there for others to use and modify as they see fit. That's kind of the Rainmeter way...
:rolmfao: This is the way! :rolmfao:
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OrionsHope
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Re: Ideas

Post by OrionsHope »

@sl23-
Thank you for the link. As for my point you proved, I've been saying that while information is out there, it isn't as readily available until you actually hunt it down. Now consider this from a new user/purchaser (emphasis on the latter) point of view. "I paid $$ for this thing and I can't get it to do what I want without re-coding???" If you're lucky, they will keep the product and never buy more from anyone. If not, they'll demand a refund, probably within the first 24 hours. Really and truly now, think about it. Would you not think similarly if you didn't already have the skills you needed?

Here's another example I just found. It's code from the RSS Neon Space skin:
LeftMouseDownAction=[!WriteKeyValue Variables RSS "#RSS3#"][!WriteKeyValue Variables RSStitle "#RSStitle3#"][!Refresh "Neon Space\Feeds"]

Now, if I'm understanding this code correctly, when I click on the button, the skin refreshes itself to reflect the change I requested. If this, or something this similar is all it takes to automatically update a skin after making changes, I'm crying foul on every single one of you who have ever put out a skin while knowing how to do this and didn't do it, whether for sale or not :twisted: Think now, again, I'm coming from the perspective of a customer. If there are no sections in a GUI (if there even is one) for a particular skin, you have to code whatever changes and then manually refresh the skin. If it's truly that simple, you guys are doing yourselves and everyone who uses your "product" a gross disservice. How? Mentally compare the effort of writing that code once to all the time and effort you spend refreshing your skin when it could have been done automatically. For that matter, how much time and energy did you spend doing that while coding the stupid thing? As for the customer, if I had not already invested so much of myself into this, I'd be sorely tempted to walk away. Why? Because as far as I'm concerned, I'm a customer both literally (I paid for the pro version of Neon Space) and figuratively.

Here in a nutshell, has been my experience with Rainmeter, and this does include both paid versions, free yet GUI'd, and your run of the mill authors.
1. Entire sections of code missing or incorrect
2. No section for certain skins in the GUI
3. Configuration files that were either incomplete, indecipherable cuz it's written in hex, or were so poorly coded, I can't even open them because they won't compile
4. Buttons not responding or not showing up. For that matter, not a single author disallows a person to alter a skin's parts without there being a whole lot of warning for them to know what will happen. It's common sense, you're letting the teenager have the car on Saturday night so to speak by doing this. Maybe you get away with it but the potential for disaster just went through the roof.

These things should, never, ever, be allowed in any product There's a couple of other things along those lines but I think you get my point. If not, it's this: despite it's great capabilities, this program will NEVER take off until these things are corrected. What I hear in your responses is apathy, an unwillingness to change the status quo, I'm betting because you're comfortable with the way things are. Tough love here, that's all. If you went into Walmart and bought something that didn't have all its pieces and or didn't meet your expected level of functionality and you weren't even sure what it could do because there were no clear instructions, you'd be on the next thing smokin back to the store to get your money back. If you have that expectation of competence for yourself, why then do you not provide it for both yourselves and also for your customers if you have any. I would also submit, that whether or not you charge for your work, you're still providing a "product" to your "customers" and even if you don't agree with me on these points, where is your pride, Man (cap M for Mankind)? :confused:
OrionsHope
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Re: Ideas

Post by OrionsHope »

Case in point right here! Upon my honor, I did not doctor this to prove what I'm saying. The clock is from the Neon Space Pro theme.
Screenshot (20210912-185528).jpg
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OrionsHope
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Re: Ideas

Post by OrionsHope »

Ooohhh, you guys... I just found out exactly how little of that code I actually needed to refresh the skin on mousedown. Really?! That's it? You know what, I'm going to walk away from this before I say what I'm really thinking and get banned. What an embarrassment and letdown.
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death.crafter
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Re: Ideas

Post by death.crafter »

OrionsHope wrote: September 12th, 2021, 11:16 pm
I don't know what made you think we are making “products“ and giving it to our "customers", but it's wrong in every way possible. I don't care if you paid $$ for a bad skin, that's on you. But you just can't go about "shaming" others who doesn't meet your expectations, just because the fact that they don't take $$ to do that.

If they do, you can always go to the author and complain about it or ask for required features or changes.

I don't mean it in a sarcastic way, or a bad way. It's just the way it is. :confused:

And yes, our pride is in the fact that we make things, and people like it, and if they don't, we don't much care. There's always this section in the manual.
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