Weather Json [new stuff] Moon Position on a 24 hour Roundline/Rotator ?

[Yincognito]

Yincognito - Ive decided to calculate and display the moon1.png according to the sundial day/night Roundlines. I think that way the moon will appear in the arc relative to the actual appearance of the rise/set, rather than by the time the moon is rising and setting. If the latter were the case, my skin would simply never be correct. So the former will place the moon on its own arc based on the day/night event horizons.

Its still not really smick. But closer to a decent version.

Ah, ok then - it's your choice, you probably know better how the skin should look. You asked for my mathematical opinion about it though, and I provided just that. The design choices are not my business, they're yours.

[Mor3bane]

Ah, ok then - it's your choice, you probably know better how the skin should look. You asked for my mathematical opinion about it though, and I provided just that. The design choices are not my business, they're yours.

I have just been trying to nut this out, and I may revert to the previous iteration. Tbh I still am certainly confused on how this needs to work and be sensible to the casual user. I cant simply make sense to only myself, so experimentation definitely includes asking for help. I likely will again.

I hope i did not offend you somehow.

[Mor3bane]

Ok.
I am so twisted around.
I am thinking the the main issue here is not the moon rising and setting. It is the time it takes to traverse those arcs. Also that measuring the time in a 24 hour cycle based clock will only end up off, due to all of the variables that make the moon cycle so [erratic] (is that the right word choice?), from the cycle of the sun's travelling arc across the sky.
There should be a formula, and google will likely give it to me. But how to put that into a Rotator's StartAngle and RotationAngle?

...help...

[Yincognito]

I have just been trying to nut this out, and I may revert to the previous iteration. Tbh I still am certainly confused on how this needs to work and be sensible to the casual user. I cant simply make sense to only myself, so experimentation definitely includes asking for help. I likely will again.

I hope i did not offend you somehow.

Feel free to ask for help again, and don't worry about offending me, it's not the case. Free will is something I respect, not just for me, but for others as well - and you certainly have that when it comes to your skins (and not mine). You are the one in control in your own back-yard, so to speak.

I will however be honest and speak about things as they are proven to be - if 2=2 I'll say it even if someone else thinks the opposite, if you know what I mean. It's how I've always been and people who know me realize that it's not bad intention in any way, just being straight on the matter.

[Yincognito]

Ok.
I am so twisted around.
I am thinking the the main issue here is not the moon rising and setting. It is the time it takes to traverse those arcs. Also that measuring the time in a 24 hour cycle based clock will only end up off, due to all of the variables that make the moon cycle so [erratic] (is that the right word choice?), from the cycle of the sun's travelling arc across the sky.
There should be a formula, and google will likely give it to me. But how to put that into a Rotator's StartAngle and RotationAngle?

...help...

I'm not quite sure what you want to achieve that has not been achieved in pbutler's skin, but if I understood correctly what a "24h sun dial" thing is (I do once in a while have such enigmas, English not being my first language), it really doesn't matter how erratic the moon cycle is, as long as you display the difference between now and the moon rise/set time divided by the total time between the moonrise and moonset (or viceversa, depending on context). The formulas in pbutler skin we talked about do exactly that - it's only a matter of deciding where you want the 0% and the 100% to be in terms of degrees/radians.

EDIT: Or, are you referring to the correlation between the sunrise+sunset and moorise+moonset?

[Yincognito]

Just in case you are interested, it's not exactly a formula, but more of a basic explanation about what happens. See What Is The Moon Doing.

[Mor3bane]

I'm not quite sure what you want to achieve that has not been achieved in pbutler's skin... Or, are you referring to the correlation between the sunrise+sunset and moorise+moonset?

Well that's the thing. I dont understand what pbutler is doing since he is using a shape which follows an arc.

I am trying to get a rotator to do the same thing, so the location and format of the defining code is just past my abilities.

I'll post the skin as it is now. I am waiting for the moon to rise and a few minutes before it actually changes to the 'up' arc I will tinker in corrections and hope for the best.

Solar Time_1xx.1xx.rmskin

It 'looks" right at this moment. I wait and see (thats my kind of math - proof by observation and averaging out the inconsistencies :P ).

[Yincognito]

Well that's the thing. I dont understand what pbutler is doing since he is using a shape which follows an arc.

I am trying to get a rotator to do the same thing, so the location and format of the defining code is just past my abilities.

I'll post the skin as it is now. I am waiting for the moon to rise and a few minutes before it actually changes to the 'up' arc I will tinker in corrections and hope for the best.

Solar Time_1xx.1xx.rmskin

It 'looks" right at this moment. I wait and see (thats my kind of math - proof by observation and averaging out the inconsistencies :P ).

I understand. Well, the way I see it, using a Rotator meters should be easier - assuming you only want to display the "now" positions of the sun and moon on the 24h dial, and you don't care about the "up" and "down" periods of the two celestial bodies. If you do care about the latter, then using arcs (or better said, Roundline meters) to show the extent of their rise to set periods on the 24h dial is probably going to be required. The positions and arcs will sometimes be hidden/truncated, especially in the case of the moon, for example if it rose "yesterday" and is going to set "today" or rose "today" and is going to set "tomorrow" (the hidden/truncated areas of the arcs will correspond to the parts of their "up" cycle that don't happen "today"). Another thing is that you have to decide if you're going to let the arcs "overlap" (like it would be normal, since the "up" periods for the sun and moon overlap as well) or you want to place them into semicircles, one for the sun and one for the moon (or, alternatively, one for the "day" and one for the "night" periods) and do your thing there. Yet another detail would be where the 00:00 (i.e. midnight) moment is located on the dial, in terms of radians (with 0 radians to the right), and the direction in which the radians increase (clockwise or counter-clockwise).

Bottom line, these details (i.e. what you actually want) should be clear in your head before trying something, otherwise the work would be for nothing and the whole thing will have to be re-adjusted to your "second thoughts", so to speak. I think I can do a basic sample in that regard, without going into web parsing, twilights, or other "complications", just using hardcoded but adjustable values for the rise / set times, but as I said, I would have to know precisely what you want, mainly the answers to the things mentioned above. The angles / radians are not an issue, they would be just (Time / 24 H) * (PI * 2) for a fully fledged circle ranging the whole 24h, with Time being the time in relation to "today" (meaning negative values for "yesterday", 0 to 24h values for "today" and over 24h values for "tomorrow"). The hiding / truncation could be done using some sort of a Clamp() function limiting the values in the 0...24h range and so on. Probably not going to happen tonight (it's almost 2 AM here now) and I wouldn't offer guarantees of any kind, but it should be possible nevertheless.

[Mor3bane]

Ok. The sun portion is my constant, as the values are strictly standard clock, day/night on a 24 hour 'sundial'. The roundlines, for day and night are based on that - well daylight specifically. The night is simply the remainder, on the 'sundial'.

So that would be, to me, the place to start for showing where the moon is in relation to that very same 'sundial'. Or basically, 'up' during the daylight portion, and 'down' during the night time portion. The actual moonrise and moonset would naturally occur with varying times so that exact position would not have to be relative to the 24 hour day/night roundline indicator. Only if 'up' or 'down' generally speaking.

I have incorporated a couple of little dividers of sorts. They are not mandatory, and are only there because I am not savvy enough to sort out the math for them to be there. The divider rotators are strictly cosmetic and sort of match the other less complicated roundlines in this suite of skins I have been tweaking for quite a while now. These dividers also sort of mimic twilight - but not something that has to be sorted to exact specifications, since the twilight would be very location specific anyway and even with internet specs would not be true to every location anyway (mountains, or flatlands in the same timezone for example).

So that is how my request looks. I hope I didnt waffle too much.

I really appreciate the time and effort.

Here is an old skin that used to work, many weather channel changes ago. It might save you time, it might not. It uses lua, so Ive never personally been able to fix it on my own. So I hope I do not add unintentionally to the complexity of this idea, by adding this into the mix.

--SunCycle--1.xx.rmskin

[Yincognito]

Ok. The sun portion is my constant, as the values are strictly standard clock, day/night on a 24 hour 'sundial'. The roundlines, for day and night are based on that - well daylight specifically. The night is simply the remainder, on the 'sundial'.

So that would be, to me, the place to start for showing where the moon is in relation to that very same 'sundial'. Or basically, 'up' during the daylight portion, and 'down' during the night time portion. The actual moonrise and moonset would naturally occur with varying times so that exact position would not have to be relative to the 24 hour day/night roundline indicator. Only if 'up' or 'down' generally speaking.

I have incorporated a couple of little dividers of sorts. They are not mandatory, and are only there because I am not savvy enough to sort out the math for them to be there. The divider rotators are strictly cosmetic and sort of match the other less complicated roundlines in this suite of skins I have been tweaking for quite a while now. These dividers also sort of mimic twilight - but not something that has to be sorted to exact specifications, since the twilight would be very location specific anyway and even with internet specs would not be true to every location anyway (mountains, or flatlands in the same timezone for example).

So that is how my request looks. I hope I didnt waffle too much.

I really appreciate the time and effort.

Here is an old skin that used to work, many weather channel changes ago. It might save you time, it might not. It uses lua, so Ive never personally been able to fix it on my own. So I hope I do not add unintentionally to the complexity of this idea, by adding this into the mix.

--SunCycle--1.xx.rmskin

I'll build something basic later today - stay tuned. It won't be exactly as you explained above, but it will be possible to adjust. No point posting your skin(s), because I'll work from 0 - it takes less time and effort to do that than to understand what someone else did in his skin and make tons of adjustments afterwards, at least that's how I feel, not to mention it's easier to understand than a more complex skin. You'll be then able to integrate either the code, the ideas or the formulas in your skin yourself. Oh, and no Lua, please - this doesn't suit well with the idea of simplicity, when talking about the script itself (and not the misleadingly "short" script measure from Rainmeter's native code, LOL).

As I said, I won't bother with the web parsing or the twilights, since you already have the parsing in your or pbutler skin and the twilights will be easy to add to the formulas later on anyway.