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AccuWeather, Todays meeting 2009/07/16

General topics related to Rainmeter.
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gschoppe
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Re: AccuWeather, Todays meeting 2009/05/29

Post by gschoppe »

I like the term config, personally...

I think this is a great idea, with two possible caveats...

1) the noncommercial usage bit... Rainmeter is FOSS, which means that it can be distributed as part of a commercial package, but is also available free... this may annoy them.

2) as FOSS they need to be aware that any information they provide will be made publicly available... the only way to get around this would be to code a custom plugin that doesn't reference the rainmeter codebase at all, and have that do all the grab and parse work... the license allows for closed source plugins.

3) as a community, we need to use their api with their intentions in mind, if such partnerships are to become more common.

as long as these are not impediments to our progress and possible later egress, I see no contention to the undertaking and advancement of this enterprise.

---------------
I'm Greg Schoppe, and I approve this message.
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dragonmage
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Re: AccuWeather, Todays meeting 2009/05/29

Post by dragonmage »

I like config also, either that or thingamahoozit :D
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GhostMatrix
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Re: AccuWeather, Todays meeting 2009/05/29

Post by GhostMatrix »

jsmorley wrote: Those are taken. I suggest we call them "whatchamacallits"... :mrgreen:

We should call the Rainmeter skin a Rainy "Droplet" Image

:P

GM
If at first you don't succeed; call it version 0.1

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Caledfwlch
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Re: AccuWeather, Todays meeting 2009/05/29

Post by Caledfwlch »

GhostMatrix wrote:We should call the Rainmeter skin a Rainy "Droplet" Image
Speaking soley as a user of the product and not a developer, I kind of like that, actually..

Still, getting back to the beef of the thread, AccuWeather puts itself within an interesting place. From reading the threads' contents, I gather they want to service Rainmeter (given stipulations), but they tend to be a bit ignorant on what exactly Rainmeter provides. Gschoppe is completely correct in terms of FOSS, and it's for this reason that I'm a bit concerned as to how well the relationship of AccuWeather and Rainmeter would play out given I myself am an open source advocate.

An interesting tidbit, atleast to me anyway - as mentioned elsewhere, there's a program available for Linux called Conky. Conky essentially reports system information in a text form on the desktop without the use of skins. Conky also fetches and reports weather information much as Rainmeter is attempting to do here.

For visual purposes, see: http://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=37381

The above-linked script is a workable script for AccuWeather within Conky. Though not immediately evident in my quickread of the thread, Conky allows a setting within it's configuration to allow for weather information retrieval, timed.

Don't ask me about the legalities of the Conky drawing measure, as Conky is GPL and AccuWeather, as already mentioned, is not without legal use limitations, evidenced by the reply McKay received initially.

I'd add more than these two cents, but given I am not a developer, I don't want to suddenly catch a case of foot-in-mouth disease. ;)
sgtevmckay

Re: AccuWeather, Todays meeting 2009/05/29

Post by sgtevmckay »

I have considered the issue of "hiding" the codes and information from AccuWeather.
Creating a restricted code, DLL's, etc.

It sits badly on the pallet!

Rainmeter is so good because it is open and available at all levels; I refuse to be the first person to create a restricted access to any portion of Rainmeter.

I will advise AccuWeather, that there is a good possibility that by releasing this information to us, that they will in essence be releasing it to the world.
I will not institute restrictions or boundaries on the code or guarantee the use of their Logo, I believe this to be a huge ignorance to believe that this will happen.

I will advise them , again, that this is an open software, for all the world, and certain expectations of there "released" code may be impossible with the Rainmeter community.

This may kill this in our tracks, but I think something can be agreed upon.
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Rainy
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Re: AccuWeather, Todays meeting 2009/05/29

Post by Rainy »

I think we just have to trust the community. AccuWeather's terms of use seem quite reasonable so I don't see much problems in following them. Just explain in the example config that if the terms of use are not complied they will probably block either your IP or the Rainmeter's user agent from their site. I don't really see why anyone would spend time on creating a Rainmeter config which would just cause it to get banned from the site.

The url to the xml feed might be more easily accessible from a Rainmeter config but it's not really possible to hide these kinds of web APIs except by encrypting the traffic (which AccuWeather probably is not doing). Even if the code is hidden in a closed library it's quite easy just to monitor the network traffic and see where the requests are send and what the server returns.
sgtevmckay

Re: AccuWeather, Todays meeting 2009/05/29

Post by sgtevmckay »

@ Rainy

Thank you sir

It is always a privilege
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GhostMatrix
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Re: AccuWeather, Todays meeting 2009/05/29

Post by GhostMatrix »

If it was me I will not go on upon their actual conditions, I think they don't understand the general meaning of the word "Skin".
Peoples make skins to match something like a visual style for an example, forcing peoples to use only their provided logo or weather icons go to the opposite goal of the skin!
I think the only thing that we can offer to them is the creation of the default "Rainy Droplet" :P for the AccuWeather RSS, keeping in mind the general style of the AccuWeather website.
I have no problem sending the images to them, to have their approval for the default skin release, like see our skin folder* , and see our logo for the AccuWeather. (*see above post)

But they will be very credulous if they think that peoples will not change or remove the logo for an example.
Like I already said previously it was the same thing for the Desktop Sidebar (DS) with The Weather Channel weather.com, we end up with their logo & weather icons in Gif format.
Like I said we were not able to access and change the code for having 5 days forecast instead of 3 days, but believe me in my skin I replace their ugly weather icons by my Png icons set, by changing the icon format and remove their TWClogo_32px.png by a blank Png, or put my own weather logo Png. (see the skin code)

Even with less conditions I think our default skin could be a good marketing tool for them, but it's their right to refuse our offer ! :?

Gm

Edit:
Here a image example if The Weather Network force me to use their logo (top) on a skin rather to use my logo (bottom) , you can see that mine blend perfectly with the background, and the integrity of their logo style is being kept!

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Code: Select all

...
    </item>
    <item name="weather45"> 
        <appearance name="standard" 
                    fillStyle="bitmap"   (### Modified) 
                    fillImage="45.png" ~ (### changed the format and removed the icon path, so the panel will take the icon directly from the skin folder) 
        />
    </item>
    <item name="weather46"> 
        <appearance name="standard" 
                    fillStyle="bitmap"
                    fillImage="../icons/46.gif"
        />
    </item>
    <item name="weather47"> 
        <appearance name="standard" 
                    fillStyle="bitmap"
                    fillImage="../icons/47.gif"
        />
    </item>
    <item name="weatherLogo"> 
        <appearance name="standard" 
                    fillStyle="bitmap"
                    fillImage="../icons/TWClogo_32px.png" ~ (### the logo part to be change)
        />
    </item>

...
If at first you don't succeed; call it version 0.1

Image
sgtevmckay

Re: AccuWeather, Todays meeting 2009/06/02

Post by sgtevmckay »

I just got off the phone with the folks at AccuWeather, and for the most part, all our conditions are met, based on the e-mail I sent in.

Apparently one of their tech folks was kind enough to research our site(s) over the weekend, and also explained a few things in regards to who we are and what we do.

The following is the e-mail I sent and today's response, prior to the phone call:

Hi. Thanks for the additional information. I can’t do anything about the requirements of using our feed, unfortunately. We have a strict policy that if a feed is abused, we do need to shut it down (though we will give a warning first).

Regarding your other request, our free feed is “as is” – five days of forecast data. We can provide up to fifteen days, but we must charge for anything above 5 days.

Let me know how you wish to proceed. If you’d like the API anyway, I do need an email that clearly states that you accept our terms of use…

Regards,

Michael

________________________________________

From: E. V. McKay [mailto:evmckay@gmail.com]

Sent: Monday, May 31, 2009 6:19 PM

To: sylvie@accuweather.com

Subject: Re: FW: Development for Rainmeter



Mr. M. Sylvie.

Even with the understanding that time is precious, I ask that you read through this Email.

I have been discussing for several days now, with members of the community, developers, coders, and the code Originator the situation, based on the agreement.

Since there are a number of Rainmeter skin developers, including myself, that wish for this to move forward. It was also agreed that there may be a mis-understanding of what Rainmeter is, and the difference between the software and the code/skin builders.

Rainmeter is actually a core software, that allows us to monitor our systems, and also allows us to Parse web pages, and control certain windows systems.

The Skins are developed by the public. Rainmeter is just a tool, and the Skins are how we collectively use this tool.

The skins are like widgets or add-ons, but this is controlled by the public builders. Any code line that is used is freely available to the public. Maybe not by choice, but by default/design. Any one who can open an ini file, can essentially find all that is needed to build there own skin. To that extent you should know that anything we obtain from AccuWeather would at some point become public. It is just the way our software works. This would unfortunately not allow us to guarantee that a logo and proper AccuWeather representation would be made available on every skin, and eventually AccuWeather code, and supplies, may be utilized by other parties outside of our purview.

It is not our community policy to secure our software in part or in whole. I would not be at all comfortable in being the first to make this happen.

We are a community of several thousand (not as large as Firefox), world wide, and growing daily. I am no cop, therefore policing the use of the supplied code by AccuWeather may create instances where there may be some abuse of bandwidth from any pages that we may acquire information from, either by Accident or Ignorance. There will also be the constant reloading and parsing of the feed, until the first few skins are built. This nay create for a usage spike in bandwidth from AccuWeather for a short period of time.

Unlike sites such as ForecastFox at Mozilla, it is not in our communities philosophy to enact barriers to the software or code, nor can a firm enforcement of all your requirements be met.

Apparently according to your agreement, we would be responsible to ensure compliance, and that the entire feed site access would be shut down, if abused by a minority. Rainy, our core developer, has asked that if this is the case, that that particular IP be banned over shutting down the whole page.

GhostMatrix would like there to be an understanding that, we would be happy to build a default skin, and this skin would meet all the requirements set forth by AccuWeather, and would then be packaged to the core software as an initial release, but know that after that we would be unable to guarantee complete compliance.

I will guarantee a wiki page at the code site and manual attached to out help files of the core software, outlining the AccuWeather Policy and procedure and outline your requirements.

At this time I would point out that no matter what, links to the Accuweather site will be included, as they are included to all skins from parsed sites, as a courtesy. I have found no exceptions.

A community request has been asked, that an AccuWeather.com and trademark be utilized in instances where a Logo would be inappropriate to the skin over all design. There are some skin builders, such as myself the build skins that are graphic limited or no graphics at all.

Also that appropriate custom graphics be made in place of any logo that you may forward to us.

As with all skins, credit for the supplied code will be made to AccuWeather, in the skin INI files

A special request has gone out. Some folks would like to know if a forecast up to 10 days would be possible?

This is not necessary.

Any IP addresses forwarded that you wish us to utilize would be greatly appreciated and utilized by the community at large.

Also a request for a link to your weather icon images has been made, so that AccuWeather images representing the Rain, sunshine, snow, partly cloudy, etc may be utilized. If at all possible.

The community at large, believes that with the above exceptions that your policies are greatly appreciate and in the Rainmeter community interests, and I have been asked to thank you for your gracious contract.

If you have any questions, please do not hesitate to contact me at any time.

If certain above exceptions can be made or compromised on, I, and we as a community, will graciously accept the proposal.

Thank you for your time in this matter.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


Due to the understanding of who we are, we will be essentially given Carte Blanche, with exceptions noted above.
Apparently their tech gut was very impressed and expressed and appreciation for seeing a resurrection of Rainmeter.
As of this time, we will not even be required to create a default skin.

Personal Note:
It would be nice if we did.

I have agreed that a Wiki will be included as to the use and limitations of the information.

I have agreed, in principle to be responsible, to the best of my abilities, to uphold AccuWeather's policy and procedure.
Therefore I will be placing my faith in the hands of the community on this one, but if we experience and ID10T error, we will all pay' with the access being closed down.

I have also received a concession in regards to a Logo. Apparently we are being asked to apply a note, graphic, links etc as often as possible, I assure them, that to mo knowledge creit is given where credit is due, and that all skins to my knowledge have a link to the site in question as a matter of course.
We will be acquiring Link Information that the request that we utilize.

Mr. Sylvie advises That we should have something soon.

Mr. Sylvie has also agreed to help us in any way that AccuWeather can, and within their policies.

Apparently we are a go :D

Thoughts and comments are welcome
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jsmorley
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Re: AccuWeather, Todays meeting 2009/05/29

Post by jsmorley »

Given that the worst case scenario is that they shut the feed down, I don't see any problem with this.

I am a tad concerned with you taking on in any way any responsibility for seeing to it that their conditions are met, but that is up to you. You are not going to make friends by sending comments on DeviantArt or Customize.org telling authors that they are not using the approved AccuWeather logo or that they didn't display attribution on the skin, but only in the .ini.

One thing you can be sure of.... Someone, maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but soon - will put in an Update=1000 and forget to put in an UpdateRate= in the measure and will proceed to beat their API like a red-headed stepchild. I do wish they would either put a hits-per-hour limit per IP address or consider blocking by IP address when they see problems instead of emailing YOU about a skin out there somewhere that you have no way of even knowing about and then shutting down the whole thing when you can't do anything about it.

Just my two cents... If they are opening up a lot more data elements than are available through their public feed today (as well as for 5 days instead of 3) then I'm sure some cool skins can be made with it and it should be fun!